Academy of Model Aeronautics

District VII Members Forum
It is currently Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:16 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:44 pm
Posts: 376
As many know these engines are the foundation for the Aero Tigre 36. Granted the innards when Randy is done with them are far different then the stock items. But that is not the reason for this post.
I've used them for quite awhile and they are truly excellent running and give excellent performance all for a measly $95.00 approx.
So to get you into the ballpark. The engine likes to rev so let it. Best set up that we've come up with.
Current example.
Umland Magician, Sure it's more engine then the lowly terrible fox 35 that it probably flew with origionally when we were all a lot younger,however the performance that you get defies any remaining interest in being period correct.
The set up is simple venturi approx .168 with ST nva. Prop APC 11/3 or 4 depending on how much pull you really want, powermaster 5/22 and an OS A-3 medium plug, 63' .015 lines, Brodak h.p. handle
What can you expect, set engine 4 cycle to just under 2 cycle level and break to 2 upline and launch. lap times were 5.35 seconds with the engine loafing along with a really pleasent break to 2 on the uplines. the engine certainly was not doing much work to fly the model. I can't give you the tach notes as I didn't use it and pete didn't give me the figures. Pete said he would like see if an 11/4 gave more pull so we went to an APC 11/4 and did not change the needle setting and launched again. Lap times at 5.23 and same great runs. He was satisfied that there was more pull but that was simply his preference and not because the model was light on the lines. I'd have liked to go for 5.4 but we'll get to that next outing I flew a cardinal,OS46LA, 12.25X3.75 APC prop,64' .015 on PM5/22 with A-3 plug. Usually I fly around 5.3/4 but today I wasn't feeling that great and set it slower, like 5.6. I have to say that as it was relatively calm it was some of the best flying that I had in quite awhile. With it that slow it was easy to set everything up and just do it. Tension was good even overhead and for me was not a strain on the shoulder . If I could get performance like that in wind it would be probably a perfect set up for me. The revelation for me is that I had avoided 11 inch APC's even though I'd used them extensively in R/C. However in the flatter pitches they are an excellent tool in taming engines that would ordinarily be difficult to get decent runs out of. Certainly a lot cheaper then a C/F blade. Live and learn

Dennis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:36 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Harsens Island, MI
Dennis

Glad to hear the motor works so well for you. I used the Aero Tiger mod for several years. I flew it with a carbon fiber prop but only got it to work in a wet 2 cycle. I like the way your run sounds and there is no question the price difference is nice. Frank has both of mine now. Odd the motors are not used more in RC. Guess its just the dominance that OS has and the ease of break in. Did you have to do an extensive break in period or was it short like the modern rc motors?

bob branch


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:44 pm
Posts: 376
Bob,

Break in was a couple of lazy runs on the model and then it was good to go. Mind you that this engine is not new and it was in an R/C model when bought about 10 years ago. Thunder Tigers are for the most part an easy engine to own and use. I have found the easiest source of these engines to be heli egines as there were literally thousands of them sold over a 15 year period. They are for the most part in excellent condition and can be bought for almost nothing or even given to you. Conversion is cheap and the engines are excellent runners.I did about a half dozen a few years ago and they went quickly at $60.00 ready to run. That was with the new head, thrust washer and venturi and nva, So you know that they can be had really reasonable. All of those engines are still in service.

I'm working on converting a few Enya 35SS helis to C/L and they are truly excellent engines. At a current cost of about $140.00 retail these conversions will be a real bargain at a little less then 1/2 price.
There are lots of good deals out in the market now. With electric becoming so popular in R/C there are more reasonable priced things available then ever before. Don't look to Fleabay or RCU for the bargains though.

Dennis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:36 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Harsens Island, MI
Dennis
Yes, I am well aware of the value of glow motors. I only have 3 glow planes left and they are rc. Everything else, cl & rc is electric. They have my 3 favorite motors in them but they are all 3D planes so they are on borrowed time. When I kill them or run out of fuel that will be it. I have about 25 glow motors that are all wonderful (with one exception) and was going to go to swap shops to sell them this winter. But they would not even bring enough money to make it worth it to clean them up. Guess my son will inherit them some day. That won't gain anything cause he will only fly electric. bob branch


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:44 pm
Posts: 376
Bob,
I'm interested in electric also,however, I don't want to have to learn a new lexicon of technology. Age is probably a factor but it is true that the older you get the more resistant to change you get. So until someone actually brings out a practical book on electric, covering conversion of engine to motor,battery calculation for a given performance, selection of ESC's and their specific functions and a clear understanding of the math to do the conversions for the math challenged I have to pass. but I really do like all of the benefits of electric.

Dennis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:36 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Harsens Island, MI
Dennis

If you see the book, DO NOT BUY IT. Electric tech is moving so fast that with even a one year lead time of a book, everything would be wrong by the time you got it. Just as an example, we were pretty well tied to one speed control and one family of timers. The timers were as good as you could want. Perfect. But the esc's we have been locked into are by castle creations and they are way overexpensive, prone to frequent (read expensive) failures due to prop strykes, and the company cannot even tell you what is in the programming. They buy it from another source which they will not make available and they will not even ask that company major important questions about it.

During the early part of this year another timer became available that essentially does what our current timer and esc system does and you can use any timer... even a $10 and they work just nice. Its not to me equivalent to what we have yet cause the rpm cannot be set digitally and that is something that has really been a boon to the way I test and fly. Still, I'm sure within a year they will be digital. Oh, and they only cost $35 or so, same as the timers we use now but the esc's we use now are on the order of nearly $100. They, not the batteries are the most expensive part of the system. Sub $20 motors are fine at any level of competition. And that is for .46 size planes. Go to .60 to .75 size planes and it will cost you about $10 more for the same brand. One former walker cup winner is a strong proponent of both the inexpensive motors and timers and speed controls... and he still wins and I have never seen him experience a power system failure in any of his many electrics. Batteries have come down dramatically. You can fly the full competitive stunt pattern on batteries in the $35 range (.46 size planes). Pay $10 more and you are state of the art level that people who have ego issues want to pay $100 each for. A charger is under $40.

Add to that the lack of need for fuel proof paint... that will really change your finishing costs! If you do a 3 or 4 color paint job this savings alone vs a fuel proof dope or auto paint job would pay for your entire power system including 3 or 4 batteries with just one plane!

The problem is getting the advice. You need to link up with someone who is actively doing it and doing it not with ego equipment but equipment that WORKS. btw, I have yet to see a piece of ego level equipment that outperforms the inexpensive stuff and I do use moderate cost stuff on some of my planes.

Rick Sawicki here in District VII is the top expert in the genre. He has been doing it in CL and RC longer than anyone else and companies have come to him to develope data and correct problems. He is not an eqo equipment proponent. Dennis Adamissin is another excellent resource. The problem with advice on the net is everyone says they are an expert. Go to the Stunt Hanger All Amped Up Forum (this is the only decent electric CL source on the net... every other one I have been on is just totally NOT accurate).

I appreciate exactly where you are at. After a couple of years in electric CL and a number in rc electric, I left electric CL for 2 years because the speed controllers no longer could communicate with the speed controllers. Rick Sawicki and I discovered it. The "powers that be" ... read those with a financial and ego interest... did not want word to leak out. It took Rick Sawicki the better part of 6 months to solve the problem and negotiate solutions with the various manufacturers. But during the entire time had you relied on what you read online it would have all been BS. Those same experts, and some others are still there doing the same stuff. Interesting thing is that those who stuck it out or were very careful and paid attention, wound up pretty much all flying on Rick Sawicki's recommended setups. Some from communication with Rick or myself or others, some by trial and error. Yes, glow is very comfortable and very reliable once you get a power system worked out and if you stick with it. Electric is even more reliable. But the info is difficult to come by and is continually changing. It is now cheaper, lighter, more powerful, and more reliable than glow and performs markedly better. Still doesn't mean anything is wrong with glow. I still have 3 glow rc planes that I fly a few times a year just cause I like the run of the motors in them and because they are bigger than I want to get systems for in electric. But if you are having fun, and are not interested in going thru the learning curve, and its all working for you then why change? You can still compete at any level with glow or electric and be competitive if that is what you are into. If you are a sport flier and the fun of it is in what you are doing and you are being successful with it, why change?

Go fly and have fun!

bob branch


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:44 pm
Posts: 376
Bob,

You change because if you don't you die. Dramatic but true. Nothing like being the star at your own funeral and not knowing it. Electrics really are the future of the hobby and if not embraced you will find your self left wanting for models,equiptmen tand a place to use them.
Better to bite the bullet while it's a .22 rather then a .50 caliber.

Dennis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:36 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Harsens Island, MI
Dennis

In that statement I could not agree more! When I started flying electric rc ... and still for the most part with CL, all my planes were glow models converted to electric. Went that way for several years. Then dedicated electric stuff started showing up and it does fly a lot better from a PERFORMANCE basis because without having to deal with vibration the models can be built a lot lighter and so they fly better. BUT they do not have longevity and especially not repairability. Balsa in the fuselages has all been replaced with extremely light, thin, and brittle light ply... not even sure it gets to the definition of light ply. It is essentially not repairable. It does not glue back together very will if at all. And forget repairing anything straight. Problem is now you cannot find glow kits to convert! Everything is electric and if you try to convert these new electrics to glow they will not stand up to the vibration nor the weight of the motor and fuel (yes electric is much lighter for the same power now. ). I am about to start scratch building in RC again because I want prformance AND durability and that is not out there now.

We will loose glow in the hobby soon though. People are just starting to see the price of balsa skyrocket. Every one of those windmills is balsa cored. Lots more money there than in a model airplane! Tower's kits (Great Planes, Goldberg, etc) just incurred a 20 to 30% price increase due to wood costs. I think you are right, the electric writing is on the wall and being cast in stone soon.

bob


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:24 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:38 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: detroit
I was going to post something here but you guys have already covered the bases. I am surprised though that Denny is back to glow---The Adamisins were running hard on electric for the past few years. Now it's back to nitro.

_________________
FRANK Carlisle


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 76
C-Lcarlisle wrote:
I was going to post something here but you guys have already covered the bases. I am surprised though that Denny is back to glow---The Adamisins were running hard on electric for the past few years. Now it's back to nitro.


Not true. If I stop running electrics it will be because I went back to flying RC Sailplanes. I respect everyone who gets a good run on glow/sparky/diesel - but I ain't interested in it for me. I cannot foresee any scenario where I will ever build another IC powered airplane. I just bought 8 new battery packs, I intend to USE THEM UP!

Like Bob B. said we are getting some new good stuff out there. The KR timer with governor WORKS, and will work with any ESC. It is just a bit unfriendly to program, and that is only because we have become spoiled by the digital programming box for the Hubin FM-9. Once you have the KR set-up tho - fogetaboutit. Pop in a new battery, push the switch and go fly.

I am a big outcast for building my OTS "Joker" with electric... I am sure folks will get over that - just as I already have. However they will NEVER forgive me when I bring out the electric Barnstormer! 8)

_________________
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne IN

Imported from Detroit


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:44 pm
Posts: 376
Dennis Adamisin wrote:
C-Lcarlisle wrote:
I was going to post something here but you guys have already covered the bases. I am surprised though that Denny is back to glow---The Adamisins were running hard on electric for the past few years. Now it's back to nitro.


Not true. If I stop running electrics it will be because I went back to flying RC Sailplanes. I respect everyone who gets a good run on glow/sparky/diesel - but I ain't interested in it for me. I cannot foresee any scenario where I will ever build another IC powered airplane. I just bought 8 new battery packs, I intend to USE THEM UP!

Like Bob B. said we are getting some new good stuff out there. The KR timer with governor WORKS, and will work with any ESC. It is just a bit unfriendly to program, and that is only because we have become spoiled by the digital programming box for the Hubin FM-9. Once you have the KR set-up tho - fogetaboutit. Pop in a new battery, push the switch and go fly.

I am a big outcast for building my OTS "Joker" with electric... I am sure folks will get over that - just as I already have. However they will NEVER forgive me when I bring out the electric Barnstormer! 8)



Tell them to got over it. After all it's just a toy airpane. That ought to jolt some sense into them.......not!

Dennis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 76
Dennis
Because it is a HOBBY, I build whatever I like and power it however I like. There is a chance that I will got to a competition some where and be told "sorry you can't fly that here" at such time I shall take my entry fee and go home!

All seriousness aside its no big deal to me.

_________________
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne IN

Imported from Detroit


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:12 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:38 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: detroit
That's right Dennis every body gets to build what they want----I think Bob is right about electric being the future.
Eventually ARFs will take over too. After that there will be Air Hog stunters.....

Did you guys get an email notification that I posted a reply?

_________________
FRANK Carlisle


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:04 am
Posts: 592
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Frank
Yes I did and wondered how that happened.

Any chance of a Spellen Checker?
Clancy

_________________
Clancy Arnold
U/Tronics Control


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thunder Tigre 36
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:18 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:38 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: detroit
It makes your inbox look better doesn't it? I like being notified. And I looked for options before I posted and the notify button was already checked. So it looks like it's automatic.
Let's go reply to a bunch of posts and see if the other guys get notified too. :twisted:

About the spelling..............I'll work on it.

_________________
FRANK Carlisle


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group